Lotting Rules Discussion

This is a discussion thread for questions and comments regarding lotting rules. However, please understand that leadership has the final say.

Discussing this LS lotting rules, a friend shared his experience from a past shell:

That does seem reasonable enough, though personally I would rather have an increase of points if you stay after the megaboss rather than have single currency free lot. I figure if I am lucky I'll get 2 pieces of single currency in a half an hour, which just isn't incentive enough IMO. I'd rather have a point or 2 tacked on to my total so I can lot in Ice. You know if I don't have enough points to even lot on a piece in Ice there is no incentive for me to be there. Yeah I like seeing my friends and the LS succeed, but in reality most people in a Dyna LS are in it for themselves, and I forsee a lack of turnout for Ice because of: 1. People haven't attended enough runs to have 5 points or 2. People spent all their points already and havn't been able to get enough back to lot in the next ice run. I am a huge fan of the point system, and of course every system has its flaws, but the one LS I ran with did it like this:

You gained points for every hour you spent in Dynamis with extra points for being at the zone on time. Double points were given if you stayed after the Mega Boss was defeated. In every zone it was (i think) /seacom 2 pieces of AF. You could use your points to reserve pieces of AF (you had Priority lot). Ice zones had different point costs to reserve AF (it was like 20 points to reserve city AF and 30 points to reserve Ice AF). It cost like 50 points to reserve 2 pieces of AF or something. Here was the kicker, if you reserve a piece and it doesn't drop, 5 or so points were deducted from your total anyway. I just seemed to enjoy that system and racked up quite a few points while I was in the shell.


Interesting thought about how to encourage attendence especially post-boss. Seems a little complicated, though; you'd really have to be on the ball to record when each person came and left. They may have a point about ice zones. I could see even experienced players not showing up because 1 point was not worth it to them if they didn't have a shot to lot anything. I wonder if this could be temporarily remedied by giving everyone a few points to start with, either just enough to lot ice or a couple shy to encourage other attendance. Bit of a balancing act.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer: This post WILL be long. I'll be quoting parts of it so it will be easier to read.

Dynastar has so much potential, and yet, it seems to grasp for straws regarding how some things are ran. I'm not going to come out and say "urdoingitwrong" to the shell, but it simply amazes me how much common sense is missing some nights.

I promised Rule I'd stick around with his shell for the long run, provided it was worth my while, and by that, I didn't mean gear. Certainly, it's what I joined for, it's what most of us joined for... but at the moment, I can come up with a few times I've been tempted to leave simply because I wasn't enjoying myself. I'm past the point where I feel obligated to stay just because up to 64 other people want their sh*t... I want to see the shell succeed and to see people attain what they want, but I'm not going to continue coming if I can't enjoy doing so while working for what is practically considered free.

I'll post my two cents, and if you want to ignore it... Fine... But for the rest of you, here's what I think should happen, as well as random snippets of the system I just left. Some of it is not applicable to D.S. due to shell restrictions, and I'll italicize that and explain why it can't happen (imo), but it's not going to stop me for posting for reference. Here's what I think should be standard:

Quote :

Basics and Common-Sense:
•Puller(s) and Tank(s) should have a [pulling/assist] macro. Something eye-catching so everyone knows what is going to happen when. Even back-up tanks should have a set of these macros. Additionally, only one person should be calling at a time. If assist changes, it needs to be stated boldly to lessen confusion.

Addendum: Add a second assist macro with a request that people store their TP for hard upcoming mobs. I.E. "(Provoke) <t>. (Full attack!)" for normal, and "(Store TP) <t>. (Store TP)" for soft, squishy mobs that come just before things like NINs, MNKs, and SMNs. Black Mages may opt for a macro like so (dependant on run) for being assisted with timed nukes. Yin and Yang (the dragons in Xarcabard, before Dynamis Lord) is a good example for a BLM call.

•Main mob-kill order should be something extremely similar to: SMN > BLM > BST > Pets > RDM/BRD > (DD) > PLD/THF > MNK/NIN > WHM. Considering the various 2HRs, it seems pretty straightforward as to why. Tanks should be encouraged to learn this order. Using squishy things to build TP (I.E. attacking a Wyvern before a NIN), with the aforementioned suggested macro, WSes may be unleashed on dangerous mobs rather early on in the line, rather than their appropriate spot in this order.

•Raises should always be given out in a: Raisers > Puller/Refreshers > BLMs > Tanks > DD > Other order. A DD can't do sh*t to mobs while weakened, but Tanks and BLMs can still (relatively) function under weakness. A Hell of alot better than a raised DRG or DRK can when everyone else is still dead.

•Autotarget should always be off. Attacking the wrong mob warrants a warning twice. Third time should result in a minimal docking of points. Killing people because you are too lazy/nonchalant/ect. to pay attention or type a five-second command isn't cool. Accidental swings due to tank having switched mob exempt. Mistakes do happen.

•(Optional) In my last Dyna shell, pullers were made to memorize the names of mobs to the appropriate job so they could call them out as they pulled. It is not a hard thing to do, giving in these days the Wiki lists what jobs pop at what what pull. I.E. "<Pullername> BLM SMN Ifrit DRG NIN 2Red 1Green."

Personally, I enjoyed the convienence of knowing what was incoming, and it made our tank's lives several easier, but this may be a bit too hardcore for this shell, especially since it does alot of talking through /l. We weren't allowed to talk much in /l in my last shell, which, to be honest... made things a hell of a lot smoother because no calls in /l were missed. However, this shell enjoys being chatty, therefore I do not think this application would work or be appreciated. Especially since it requires the puller to be quick on the keys. Alternatively, and much easier of an option, one with knowledge of the mobs might be designated 'Caller', and just follow the puller around for such a reason (and the option of assisting in large pulls.)

•For SMN pulls, Sleepers were often called to assist the puller in sleeping avatars where they spawn. It is not a huge concern in DynaStar, seeing how we handle SMNs very well - but I am suprised to find out that this is not a staple practice in nearly any shell when it did seem to help immensely for certain zones. If an Astral Flow did happen, it would only hit those whom had been called off to sleep. Two or Three BLM or RDMs < a whole alliance, if you ask me. Again, not necessary, but a possibility if it were ever needed.

•Off-tanks that voke stones and sleeping mobs off of Black Mages are loved and deserve cookies for their valiant assistance.

•Attribute stones (Green/Blue) are most helpful when killed in camp, not just before it reaches the flush of the group.

•Stun is good. Any job that can stun from a distance should use it as often as they can. It helps pull kiters out of unsavory situations, keeps rampaging mobs from eating the faces of your comrades, and keeps annoying things from their annoying actions (i.e. Silencega from crows, Cures/Benedictions from WHMs.) I shouldn't even need to say this, but I find that people undervalue this spell in our shell...

•In areas where pets can be outrageously irritating, keep them silenced if applicable (see: scorpions, crows.) Bring appropriate meds (read: echo drops for Windy/Beaucedine...) if there is even the slightest chance of them being needed.

•This one is personal, but please, for the love of someone's God, if you are not A.) A puller/puller's assistant. B.) A tank. or C.) A sleeper... STAY BEHIND THE MAIN ASSIST. Not only does it make kiter's considerably less dead, it makes my life easier because I can see what the Hell I'm doing. I'm visually impaired, and failing to act because people are in the way is EXTREMELY frustrating to me. This game requires alot of visual clues to play well, and I just cannot do that while staring through the head of some random DD.

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Gear and Attendance:
•Uncap points. WHY is there a cap to begin with? There are people in the shell that ARE working for free, because what they want is in zones that we are not doing yet. I know we're close to Ice/Dream, but it still goes to say that it is extremely discouraging to attend if your points are capped and there are long bouts of not doing the zone you want, or having the zone drop the sole piece you've been saving up for. If Bob had 337532 points and Tim has 12, then yeah, it's going to suck for Tim because he's guaranteed to not get what he wants right away... but if someone has attended so long and faithfully as to get <rediculouslyhighnumberofpoints>, then I do not see why they should go unrewarded for it. If I were someone who has been attending for months, and I lost lot on the one thing I've wanted to someone who capped their points a week prior, I would be really pissed. Anyone would, I think.

•Bind multicharacters to the same point pool. Alot of people have alts these days. As long as people don't attend on both at the same time to recieve credit for both, I do not see why this is an issue that merits having seperate point totals. It is another attendance related discouragement to people that this applies to. Perhaps the shell rules could limit the characters bound to your main, as well as condition their lotting rights (I.E. must wait 2 weeks after binding to unlock lotting for the alt.)

•I don't know when attendance is taken and considered with DynaStar, but, Dynamis is 3.5hrs long. People should ATLEAST be able to stay 90minutes to get credit. "/sea linkshell" after 90minutes is up and take a screenshot or two of the list. All people who show up on it get credit. Alerted early-leaves should get credit, or half credit. Real life comes before FFXI always, courtesies should be respected, but as is the knowledge that this is a staticked event that requires SOME form of dedication from it's members. Which brings me to...

•We go 8~ times a month. My suggested way to encourage attendance is simply this: Give 1 extra point to people who made 5~6 runs out of the month, and 2 extra points to people who made 7~8. (AND/OR) People with near perfect attendance should also gather together at the end of the month to /random. The highest random gets to reserve a piece of relic for a single run applicable to the zone of their choice (whenever it happens to happen.) If the armor doesn't drop, then the reservation is scrapped. It'd suck to whoever had their reservation scrapped in such a case, yes, but having a long line of reservations is not something this shell can afford due to drop rates. Also, I do not know of alot of people who would complain over a single chance at 100% claim to something they really want, over having to retain their place in the gamble that is competition.

Two extra points + a chance at reserves may be a bit much for people who win the /random contest, though. Perhaps winners should be made to forfeit those extra points if they choose to use their reserve option? Likewise, have a set time period (in months, preferably.) before someone could become /random winner again. This suggestion is something that needs extraordinary careful scrutiny in execution... lest there be discontentment over certain relic congestion. (RDM hat or TH4 b*tch-fights, anyone?)

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•Right now, our lotting rules are /seacom 2 win 2 with points based Ice/Dream. This works really well because we are half composed of P.U.G. members. It is not a system I hate, but I still wish to raise awareness to an alternative that works well and actually keeps members returning:

In my last shell there were several phases of membership:

-When you first joined, you were a trial. You could not lot for two runs. (Not doable for DS because we rely on /shout instead of a base core, as was the shell I left.)
-Trainee (after trial is over)
-Alpha Member (after 10 runs)
-Alpha Hero (after 40 runs)

There were 3 different type of job trees: Primary (Must be 70+), Secondary (Must be 65+), and Virtual Job (Must be 50+, could set two.)

Trainees were only allowed to set a Primary, and allowed to lot on them.
Alpha Members could set all three.
Alpha Heroes could set all three, but secondaries were given primary rights.

That means after 10 runs, you could lot up to 4 jobs and win for them all in a single run. It was unlikely, but possible.

The AF hierarchy was as such if a piece dropped:

Does an Alpha Member have it set to primary/Alpha Hero have it set to (primary/secondary)? > Yes > All peoples in this situation lot together, highest wins.
V
No
V
Does an Alpha Member have it set to secondary? > Yes > Lot together, highest wins.
V
No
V
Trainees's Primary/Alpha [Member/Hero]'s Virtual Job? > Yes > Highest wins.
V
No
V
Freelot, including Trial Members.

I am not suggesting DynaStar adopt this system. I was merely posting it for reference for those whom have told me that they dislike points systems. If you remain that way, it is your opinion and I will certainly not attack it. I simply wished to enlighten on why I am so partial to the shell I left when I quit my last server.

It was a good system, and it gets even more complex (and rewarding) regarding systems for reserving pieces of gear or winning currency, though I do not feel like making this post any longer than it has to be over something I'm sure near everyone will consider trivial. Either way, this system brought in members and very few ever left. If they were forced into inactivity or simply chose to not come to Dynamis for a time, they always came back at some point. Yes, I am biased, but this system proved to be a miracle... and the successes of that shell, as well as the many many relic weapons that came out of it is proof enough that not ALL points systems fail. It was a simple matter of getting thoroughly rewarded for your attendance, and I liked that.

So there's my moderately biased opinionization of Dynamis. I think I've covered nearly every point I can suggest on, but it is late and my brain is tired. Not everyone is going to agree with me forever and always on all my points, but I do hope that people can see that there is merit in what I have to say. It is a little bit more strict than what we have going on, but I do believe it would boost efficiency several times over, and to some extent, make Dynamis more fun.

On a last note, I want to apologize to the shell for how I come across when I talk. I know a great deal of the time, including now, I sound picky/bitchy... but I really am trying to just see to it that everyone succeeds. I am not always successful in my portrayals... but do we not all have bad days sometimes? I want it to be publicly acknowledged that if anyone have an issue with me personally, they should take it up with me up-front, privately.

We'll work things out, I promise.
~Kao

Don't leave, I think there is still hope for your desires regarding the shell, but it seems to me that the way you view Dynamis is very different from the way in which this shell is conceived. We are a more social / family / let's-have-some-fun-and-get-people-some-gear kind of animal, not a mechanical beast that generates relic. We also have a lot of first-time and pretty new members due to all the shouts, which both kinda ties us to the seacom system and means we'll need to repeat things over and over when it comes to SOP. We must strive for excellence but maintain patience - I understand you get frustrated, but browbeating people by saying "christ I'm not saying this for my own goddamn amusement" or whatever it was last night is probably uncalled for. To try to guard against this, we should probably have Rule or Main Assist run a checklist before entering each run. /autotarget off. Only declare an attack on /assist target. Stand back and let me engage and relocate first incoming mob if necessary before clustering around it.

Points are a sticky wicket. I think the most successful hardcore shells must all use points; it caters to devoted members who want to put in a long-term commitment. I can't speak for Rule, but as I understand it, the current point system is conceived as a middle ground after the allergic reaction to Antebellum's lotting system. If you did not have time to familiarize yourself with it, it was an uncapped point system based on several tiers. The intent was to most reward the members who had contributed similar lengths of time. The detriment was that points tend to get away with you and ruin the experience for newer members - an extreme example is that Asuryan was on a tier well above the rest of the shell. If he wanted, he could set his eye upon a couple jobs and lock every other member out of them for months. A more common example would be myself - I only have MNK (soon probably COR) at proper levels and attend a lot of runs for fun so if uncapped I would have a large number of points. A new member could look at me and reliably conclude that there was no way they were getting MNK or COR gear even for months of commitment, because you just can't catch up to people in an uncapped system. In the current consideration of the system, only people who have put in some runs with us will be able to lot ice, but we all can, and that's fine with me. Your old system uses a different kind of tier but I don't know if it's better or worse for dynaStar. We might retain more members but we'd receive little new blood so things would become static and atrophy over time like the old Antebellum. I just don't think it's time yet at this phase of the shell's shout-heavy life.

I can't say whether your extra points and reserves system would work, but it might be nice to have an extra little reward for people who show up for every run. Maybe extra points or lotting rights or payout from extra currency or Rule could do a Sexy Dance for us.

I think we should bind characters to the same point pool. I don't see a functional difference between Bob with jobs A through D or Bob with A and B, Bertha with C and D. Why not? Are we worried that someone will have leveled Red Mage on three different characters and wants a Chapeau for each? Or is it a method of artificially limiting how many jobs you can expect someone to lot on long-term, resulting in more runs where they 'work for free'? It seems advantageous to us as a shell for all our members to have access to as many jobs as possible to fit changing role needs.

Other suggestions you made about operating procedure sound good, but maybe we should make a seperate 'strategies' or 'operating procedure' thread? Not that anyone reads the forums anyway~~

-Kisu

You wanted a reply? I gave you a reply. Sure, I could of made a new topic on this or split the thread in two - but I didn't find it necessary to reply to this on one matter then make a whole new thread for a second matter as was. All of this effects the shell, so it fits, even if it is slightly off the main topic.

Secondly, I already apologized for last night. If you hadn't noticed, I went quiet sometime around the palace bit of the run and didn't say much afterwhence. Nor was I able to pay too much attention, honestly. Rule was talking to me throughout the run, he knew the heart of my problems, there, and truthfully - they had little to do with the LS and more to do with the fact my emotions were completely fvcked. But... I'm not going to make this thread personal and move on to say...

Family or not, there isn't a reason in the world why we can't try to implement elements of a more determined LS base... The only thing separating us from every other LS I've seen on Asura thus far is that we are not 100% /seacom. Maybe I'm delusional, but I was of the opinion that too lax of rules would result in most of our new members getting what they want - AF wise - then ditching the shell. Cores break over that sh*t, and there simply must be a reason to sweeten the pot as far as staying goes. Granted, we can't completely force someone to our bidding and granted, there are a handful of people who will come just for the sole enjoyment of having something to do and watching others succeed... but when it boils down to it, there aren't many who are willing to put up with the length and tedium of redoing such an asinine event over and over and over...

I get the point of fresh-blood being discouraged by the idea of people having a over 9000 points on something they hope to strive for, but I am still of the belief that if that person HAS that many points... it's for a reason. They've worked rediculously hard for what they want, and just haven't got it yet. All it would take for that new person to recieve is a little time, effort, and a good drop rate to clear the roads ahead of them.

I will admit that I see things in a much different light than near everyone else. Otherwise I would of found a shell I was totally satisfied with from the get-go. The only one even remotely close to meeting my needs besides D.S. is Ikuni's shell, and I decided against them because I didn't want to do Dynamis at midnight. As it turned out, DS unmerged from Antebellum and moved their hours up a little later... so at the moment... it's practically the same thing. But, more onto the point, maybe it isn't just me who sees things differently. Everyone has their own expecations and their own versions of what is most notibly the same system. A handful of the people -I- know from this shell aren't completely satisfied with how we've progressed, and this system just barely hits the mark for my own needs. Though if I was 100% concerned with myself, I would of just left and joined Ikuni by now.

When dealing with major changes, it is good to be business minded and consider every angle... and I think I've done that. I will admit that not everyone is in love with the things I have suggested, but it has already been stated that every system has it's flaws.

Also, I spent some time thinking about my own post when I went to sleep... and I believe that the only thing I would change out of retrospect consideration is that IF such a reserves system came up for near-perfect attendance that it would need to be spread out over the duration of two months instead of one, simply because with how many shells there are to compete with - there is no guarantee that we can have more than one icelands run in a month. If someone had something reserved EVERY Xarcabard, and I'd imagine it'd be mostly the same pieces being asked for, alot of people would be discontent because that makes their points worth naught. It's a system that I only think would work if used sparingly, but indeed used as encouragement.

Other than that, Kisuke, it's already been discovered that you and I are pretty black-and-white with how we deal with people. However, I know for 100% certain that I am not the only one on this server who'd enjoy a more structured shell...

If you (or the others) think my ways are too intense, that's fine. I did leave an intense shell, but from personal experience... our problems wasn't in the recruiting of members. We had nearly 40 people every city run, and on-most ice runs we were completely capped for the zone. The thing is, only 20~ of those people were the base core that showed up to every single run ever. Everyone else were just casual or novice members... and under their systems, 9/10 pieces would go to Trainees/Virtual Jobs/Trial Members simply because the others already had their pieces - almost nullifying the fact that they had a million points set aside for the hard stuff. Large pools of points are intimidating only if you choose to make them intimidating, but all it took was a little gratificative encouragement via seeing drops weren't deadlocked every single run to keep the new people returning. And since we had 2~5 new recruits every week... I'm missing the point on where what they did was a bad thing.

But why should you listen to me at all, eh? For all you guys know, this shell didn't exist and I'm pulling these strings of grandiure out of nowhere just to get what I want.

Sooo many people that have tried to lead shells like this end up giving up saying one thing. "I just couldn't get the numbers and loyalty it took to succeed." I told the story of one shell that did succeed, and are still doing so weekly. The only thing I've neglected to mention is that part of their success regarding keeping older don't-need-anything-any-more members is the fact that currency is sold to members (4k/single ~ 300k/100coin) via another system for the pure purpose of upgrading relic, people could work on something that is usually pretty impossible for 95% of normal players at cheaper the cost it would take to do so any other way. It helped fund the shell, and it rarely had problems with people stockpiling currency and running off to sell it due to insurance measures taken to protect the shell's funds, I'd elaborate - but I'm sure no one cares. Though in a shell where the currency is reserved, my ever bringing that up was of moot point. Other than that, there was absolutely marginal difference between them and the other shells. They had loyalty and attendance because they were smart and they paid well for it.

I didn't come here under the assumption that the shell would meet my demands... I came here to make a point and speak up with some ideas where others fall silent.. and truthfully, I almost didn't bother. I know that no one reads the forums at all, but you never hit the target if you don't pull the trigger.

I think, though, I'm going to stop discussing it after this point. I've said what I've had to say, and I really don't feel like going round-and-round with people in defense of my own views. I simply chose to speak up when others have not, and as my personal history has taught me time and time again... my doing so always leads to disaster.

Some days I really wish I was the type of person to just be a sheep and let whatever happens, happen. It's just not in me.

All I'm sayin...
~Kaoi

Hello Everyone, can't say i read line for line but i skimmed through the important stuff.

As for lotting i believe cities will always be /seacom2 win2 just for the fact of getting people to join and givine some insentive, as well as synth mats being FL. However Ice and CoP should be done by some type of attendance or a recognition of those who show up on a regular basis, maybe reserved lotting for certain peices of gear for certain members. That i'm not %100 person about yet but there should be something done.

As far as the stability of runs, i understand some things can be frustrating but the more we build the member base the better things will get. Once we have regular people who show up all the time then we can focus on working as one. but its tough to work at all if there are only a few people trying to do the task of many.

I have lots of faith and patience, so i have no doubt we will accomplish whatever is set in front of us, and do it in a way that is fair and rewarding.

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Denilson said: I think this thread needs an update since the rules posted here differ a little from what actually goes on during runs, specially ICE and CoP runs.

For what I understand last Xarcabard lotting rules where Seacom2/win1. For CoP, Established members are allowed to Seacom 1 ACC, 1 AF, 1 -AF, while new comers just 1 AF, and 1 -AF. Finally City runs are the well known Seacom2/win2.

I think most of us are Ok with this setup; However, I have a couple of suggestion concerning the freelot rules, specially on the ice and CoP zones. As everybody knows Freelot gear is freelot, and anyone can lot on it without any regard on job level. What i think should change is the number of freelot gear one can obtain per run. In other words if someone wins a freelot, he/she cannot lot for anymore freelot gear that drops for the remaining of the run.

Finally, since we never really adopted the point system for ICE and CoP areas, I think lotting rules for synthesis materials should go back the way they were before the merger, as a way to motivate members to show up to runs in zones from which they will not be going after AF.

Well that's all for now, see you all wednesday

Quote :

Rule replied: Good suggestion. I would like to put this to vote today. i just tried to auto translate synthesis materials....anyway, i made them FL to entice new players. but since we are starting to become established i think its time to focus on other things now, like fairness and getting more gear.

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I agree that we should query the shell. Changing lotting rules on people without making them feel like part of the process might upset some members. For what it's worth, I would vote for a return to seacommed synthesis materials OR some other form of member reward/retention program. I'm not sure what all our options are.

1) Make Synthesis Materials seacom based. Pros: Funnels more loot to people who don't have much to lot on, including those of us with only one viable job. Cons: Still doesn't result in much loot-per-person and still neglects people who seacom popular jobs (I'm looking at the people who seacom BLM RDM every run and haven't gotten anything in ages)
2) Institute periodic payouts. Pros: Encourages attendance even among those with little to gain; makes runs easier by virtue of more attendance + more loot to people who want it. Cons: Leader is trying to complete a relic, not make money. Payouts increase the burden on leadership. Highly fluctuating attendance makes keeping track of who gets what difficult.
3) Institute lottable currency after certain requirements have been met. Pros and Cons, see #2.
4) Institute buyable currency at a discounted rate. Helps people work on their own relics, I guess? Kaoi's old shell did something like this, but I don't know how well it'd work for Dynastar, because many members don't want to upgrade relic and because it's a hit to leadership.
5) Institute a reserve system. Pros: keeps members happier because they feel closer to the gear they want. Cons: the nightmares of dealing with a point system and whatnot, harder to recruit new followers.

Honestly I'm not sure what would work best for Dynastar. We're doing okay as it is, for sure - attendance is decent and we're getting some gear. However, I can't deny that I've heard grumblings from people about never getting anything or about new players showing up, 'taking' AF from under the noses of old members by virtue of lucky lot, and then disappearing now that they have what they want from us. The standard trials and tribulations of a /seacom based LS, I think. Penny for your thoughts, lads and lasses?

i say /seacom2 win2 OR synthesis materials. new members need to go to at least 2 runs before they can lot anything. Anyone willing to do at least 2 runs will probably stay. Thoughts?

I don't know if "must go two runs before you can lot anything" will do us much good, given the proliferation of shouts for dynamis in Whitegate these days. I've even seen /seacom 2 and all currency freelot - which is an offer we just can't match. Perhaps a one-run before lotting or one or two runs of only /seacom 1. Not sure how we'll keep track of people, though!

Talk to you in-game.

Found some very interesting information over at Alla today. Someone wrote an "in-depth guide to lotting" - worthy of note for our little shell for sure. The loot lists/wish lists look nice, but with so many people putting BLM RDM SAM on top it might not help the situation much. Perhaps we could look at an EPGP system or Prio system for northlands/cop? I still have worries about discontent among older members who don't think they're getting a fair shake for long service.